

THE CREW
2ND LT George C. Hale(0-677489) Pilot KIA Sargent, NE Original Crew
1ST LT Everett D. Smith(0-434596) Co-Pilot KIA Tolar, NM Substitute
2ND LT James M. Kelly(0-676069) Navigator KIA Eureka Springs, AR Original Crew
2ND LT Paul H. Hughes(0-679522) Bombardier KIA Indianapolis, IN Original Crew
S/SGT Ralph W. Anderson(15069898) Eng/Top Turret KIA Clarksburg, OH Original Crew
S/SGT Frank C. Lockman(17157759) Radio Operator KIA Gordon, WI Substitute
SGT Louis B. Madison(19200785) Ball Turret KIA Gaston, OR Original Crew
S/SGT Loyd C. Quarles(14043140) Right Waist Gun KIA Bridgeport, AL Substitute
S/SGT WM C. Lilienthal(32317971) Left Waist Gun KIA Brooklyn, NY Substitute
SGT Donald L. Wilson(14163420) Tail Gunner POW Pascagoula, MS Substitute
ORIGINAL CREW IN THE GROUP PHOTO WHO DID NOT FLY ON DECEMBER 1, 1943
Alvin B. Skare Co-Pilot Hixton, WI Sick
Forrest C. Neigler Waist Gunner Racine, OH Sick
William J. Egar Radio Operator New York, NY Wounded
Kenneth C. Davidson Tail Gunner El Paso, TX Sick
Robert W. Douglas Waist Gunner Newark, OH Unknown
With his brother Bob and close friends, Bernard and Joe Ater, Clarksburg, Ohio native, Ralph W. Anderson volunteered to serve in the Army Air Corps before the draft. Having tinkered with engines nearly all 18 years of his life, Anderson’s skills were put to use as a B-17 Flying Fortress mechanic.
As American activity heightened overseas, an increasing number of men were needed to fill 10-man bomber crews. Anderson was quick to volunteer his services. Performing his new role of Aircraft Flight Engineer, Sgt. Anderson traveled to Pyote, TX for flight training with his crew, led by Sargent, Nebraska native, pilot, Lt. George C. Hale
(who was living with his wife in San Francisco, CA at the time).After completion of flight training, the crew was assigned to the 325th Bomb Squadron of the 92nd Bomb Group, a.k.a. Fame’s Favored Few. Pictured above are the ten original members of Hale’s crew, (kneeling left to right), George C. Hale –Pilot (Sargent, NE), Alvin B. Skare- Co-Pilot (Hopkins, MN), James B. Kelly – Navigator (Eureka Springs, AR), Paul H. Hughes – Bombardier (Indianapolis, IN), (Standing left to right) Ralph W. Anderson – Engineer (Clarksburg, OH), Forrest C. Neigler - Waist Gunner (Racine, OH), William J. Egar - Radio Operator (New York, NY), Kenneth C. Davidson - Tail Gunner (El Paso, TX), Louis B. Madison - Ball Turret Gunner (Gaston, OR), Robert W. Douglas - Waist Gunner (Newark, Ohio).
Shortly after receiving their assignment, Bill Egar noted that the crew ferried a B-17 from the United States along the "northern route" to Europe. This common flight path traveled through Maine, up to Newfoundland and eventually to Preswick, Scotland where new crews would leave the aircraft and travel by land to their respective base assignments. Hale’s crew traveled by train from Preswick to the home of the 92nd Bomb Group near Podington, England arriving in mid-October, 1943.
As the crew winged its way to war, Lt. Hale’s wife, Mrs. Muriel F. Hale, took it upon herself to keep in touch with the crew’s family members, stateside. From their newly established bay-area home
(660 11th Avenue, San Francisco, CA), the young Mrs. Hale corresponded often with Ralph Anderson’s mother, Mrs. Gail Anderson from Clarksburg {October 14, 1943}:Dear Mr. and Mrs. Anderson,
I know you must think this is a little odd receiving a letter from someone who you most likely have never heard of. And yet, you might know me through my husband, Lt. George C. Hale, who is pilot of your son’s plane.
The reason I’m writing this letter is so that we might become acquainted. And through our acquaintance, feel free to write each other at any and all times we might be bothered when we don’t hear from the one we love as often as we might.
Somehow, the knowledge that we are not exactly standing alone, in our ignorance of their doings is somewhat of a help. And together, we could somehow make the time, that they are away, seem shorter through our correspondence.
My husband has promised faithfully to write daily. So if ever you would want to know of their doings, please feel free to write me, and I will in turn pass on any and all information I possibly can, to you.
Sincerely, Muriel F. Hale
I was certainly pleased to hear from you and realize you must certainly have your hands full in writing letters…The boys flew across to England, arriving there approximately the 14th of last month October; and according to my husband, had a most pleasant and uneventful trip. Since then, they haven’t been doing any flying…just taking it easy.
Don’t feel too bad about Ralph not writing you of their doings, because you see, it’s not permissible and would only be censored if he did.
As for the crew staying together. I’m more than praying so because definitely they will not be separated by the government…only an act of War. In other words, they will be together until they return; which please "God" they do soon.
I’m certainly happy that Ralph is pleased with his pilot, because only if all members of the crew are happy with those they fly with, will they have a GOOD crew. I know that for George’s part; he believes they don’t come better or sweller then the group of fellows in his plane.
They haven’t been doing any flying, as I said before, but have had plenty of time to enjoy the scenery and see the sights of England, which according to my husband, they are doing well.
I receive daily letters from George, so any time you wish any info on your son, please write me.
Regards to your entire family, Muriel Hale
Unfortunately, overseas, the truth was grim. Due to heavy losses, the 92nd Bomb Group was in desperate need of aircraft and pilots. Upon their arrival, Hale and his crew had little time to get acquainted with their new surroundings before being included in the regular mission rotation. In fact, the crew flew their first mission on November 26, 1943 to Bremen, Germany, providing them only a few short days of additional rest .
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In the B-17G "Dottie G," serial #42-37755, Lt. Hale flew in formation behind and to the right of the 325th’s lead aircraft, flown by Jack Griffen.
During The mission, Flak and enemy aircraft were intense. One hundred and sixty twin-engine German fighters, 125 single-engine German fighters, and 236 big guns were encountered in the area during the mission. The German’s Anti-Aircraft Artillery was very accurate and as a result, radio operator, Bill Egar was struck in the face by a piece of flak which wounded him and knocked his oxygen mask from his face leaving him unconscious. Egar praises Ralph Anderson for saving his life, as Anderson jumped from the top turret, rushed to Egar’s aid and placed his oxygen mask back on his face to revive him. Eventually, Egar awoke, however, his wounds were worse than they had appeared. Not only was he wounded in the face, but he was also frost bitten. Upon landing in Podington, he was immediately hospitalized for his condition and spent close to a week out of commission, missing the crew’s next mission December 1, 1943.On the crew’s second mission, December 1, 1943, Lt. Hale was short four crewmembers, due to Egar being wounded, and co-pilot Lt. Skare and two gunners grounded for respiratory infections. After recruiting pilot Everett Smith, a gunner, and radio operator Sgt. Frank Lockman (
first mission) to fill the vacancies, Hale approached substitute gunner Sgt. Donald Wilson and asked him to fly in place of his ill tail gunner, Ken Davidson. In Wilson’s own words, "{I was} eager to jump in and save the World, so I agreed {to go}."In a rush to catch up with the rest of the crew, Wilson briefly conversed with Davidson before leaving the barracks. Since Davidson’s parachute was already packed and ready, he handed it to Wilson to save him time. Wilson joined the crew at the B-17 and was briefly introduced to the other members before boarding the bomber and taxing to the runway.
On this day, Lt. Hale was piloting B-17F, Serial #42-30803. This specific aircraft was commissioned to the United States Army Air Force July 28, 1943 after its production in Seattle under the Boeing Serial number 5917. It was delivered to the 2nd Strategic Air Depot on October 8, 1943 and assigned to the 8th Air Force, 92nd Bomb Group, two days later on October 10.
The December 1 primary bombing targets were Solingen and Leverkusen, Germany. Eighth Air Force records indicate that there was equipment failure in the lead aircraft, which caused some diversion in the mission. The B-17’s diverted to a secondary target to drop their bombs on Seigburg, Germany.
According to Wilson, eight seconds before the designated target in Seigburg, #42-30803 took a direct impact of Flak in the belly of the aircraft adjacent to the bomb bay. At impact, there was a very large explosion and communications were immediately knocked out. Wilson thinks the explosion set off the incendiary bombs that were still locked in the bomb bay (
8th Air Force records suggest that every aircraft dropped its bombs and the flak explosion that damaged 42-30803 took place just after the target. Wilson is convinced that he heard a radio transmission that said the bombers were eight seconds from the target when the plane was hit, however, he admits that he could be wrong due to the fact that all squadron bombardiers drop their bombs as soon as they see the lead aircraft release its bombs).Additional internal explosions caused smoke and fire to quickly engulf the mid-section and back half of the aircraft. Wilson said that when he first turned around to look forward through the B-17 to see what had happened, he noticed that the mid-section of the plane was in very bad shape and that more than likely the initial explosion killed the radio operator instantly. He commented that the wooden doorway that divides the radio control room from the mid-section of the aircraft (where the waist gunners are located) was riddled with exiting flak holes. He also noticed both waist gunner escape hatches were blown and the gunners were no longer in the aircraft.
Seconds later, he witnessed Sgt. Louis Madison arise from the ball turret position into the fuselage of the B-17. Wilson mentioned that Madison was definitely preparing to bail out of the aircraft because he unhooked his oxygen supply so he could move freely through the aircraft to get his parachute. Instead of grabbing an auxiliary bottle of oxygen and hooking it to his mask, Madison went without oxygen and a few seconds later, he collapsed on the floor. Wilson assumed he collapsed of oxygen deprivation, however Madison may have received severe wounds from the initial flak explosion while lowered in the ball turret position, out of Wilson’s direct line of sight. Eyewitness accounts from other aircraft in the formation claim the flak explosion did considerable amounts of damage to the ball turret.
An eyewitness account from a nearby Tail Gunner describes the severity of the damage caused by the explosion.
In the Missing Air Crew report, 92nd Bomb Group gunner, Dorwin Radney wrote:
"From my position in the tail of 42-30716 leading the second element of the low squadron, I saw the plane flying our right wing Lt. Hale’s B-17F #42-30803 hit by flak and burst into flames. I was watching it at the time it was hit. Flak hit the plane directly, hitting just behind the ball turret and at the same time the #2 engine seemed to be hit. The ball turret was blown off. The whole interior of the plane - from the bomb bay to the tail was in flames. The escape door from either the waist or tail was either kicked off or blown off but I did not see any chutes come out. It is possible that some men did jump making a delayed jump and blended with the clouds making it impossible to see them. The plane remained under control for approximately three minutes and finally dropped out of formation. It was burning badly when it went out of my sight. Our waist gunner reported that this plane blew up at an altitude of about 15,000 feet"
(Radney, D. United States Army Air Corps Missing Air Crew Report).
In a matter of seconds, Wilson witnessed that both waist gunners were gone and Sgt. Madison had made an unsuccessful attempt to escape the aircraft. The situation was serious. He made sure his parachute was secured so he could bail out if necessary. Grabbing the parachute given to him at Podington by original tail gunner Ken Davidson, he noticed that he had rings on his harness and rings on his parachute, instead of rings on one and clips on the other. Out of options and praying that it would work, he snapped the incompatible chute onto his harness the best he could without attaching the top two connections.
The next few moments were unclear for Wilson. One moment he was preparing his gear, and the next moment he woke up from an unconscious state while free falling through the clouds. He was either blown or sucked out of the aircraft by an additional internal explosion, as mentioned in Radney’s after action report.
While slowly gaining consciousness and free falling to Earth, Wilson could feel burns around his eyes and face, which provides substantial support that the second explosion was what separated Wilson from the remainder of the aircraft. A few moments into his hazy free fall, he regained enough consciousness to realize he needed to open his parachute. As he wrestled with the harness to ensure that it didn’t slip off his shoulder, the chute finally deployed. After the initial jolt, he realized that something was wrong because the canopy was between his legs instead of hanging above his head. He was hanging upside down heading straight for a frozen farm field. He landed on the back of his head and was knocked unconscious for a second time
.Wilson lay in the field unconscious for what he thinks was two to three hours due to the fact that the bombing run was scheduled for Noon, and the sun was beginning to set. When he regained consciousness he realized he had to be careful and soon saw three German soldiers with a search dog walking in his direction. In an attempt to avoid detection, Wilson jumped chest deep into what he thought was a canal, but was actually a small creek that had been drudged out and carefully maintained by local farmers for years (pictured above left). Unfortunately for Wilson, the water was ice cold, so he jumped out of the water quickly. He sought shelter underneath a nearby bridge {or overpass} and eventually was captured at gunpoint by German soldiers. Wilson was interrogated for 21 days in Bonn, Germany and then sent to Stalag 17B near Krems, Austria where he was held captive for 18 months.
(MAP: The following map identifies the locations of 1. the 100-150 meter area of the farm field where Dr. Eschweiler discovered the bodies, 2. where a few aircraft artifacts were discovered, 3. where the wreckage landed, and 4. the cemetery in Euskirchen where Anderson was buried).

CRASH SITE
Sgt. Wilson never did consciously locate the B-17 while he was free falling, or while he was on the ground. However, according to what he can remember about the condition of the aircraft, the flames and smoke were intense and the damage to the mid-section of the aircraft was so severe that he assumed it was able to stay aloft for only seconds after he became separated from the plane. Additional 8th Air Force records suggest that 42-30803 dropped out of formation following the first explosion and a few minutes later exploded a second time. It was last seen by the group at coordinates 50 degrees 41’ North by 06 Degrees 20’ East, near the village of Monschau, Germany
Wilson may have never correctly
identified the downed location of the aircraft during his own fight for
survival, but Dr. Christian Eschweiler certainly did. Eschweiler, a
lifelong Euskirchen, Germany native, was an 11-year-old schoolboy in
December of 1943. After school let out on December 1, he and a few
classmates were walking their normal route home, along the train tracks
from a nearby depot outside of Euskirchen, when they spotted bodies lying
in a field adjacent to the tracks (pictured
right: Lissa and Victor Cleary hold crash artifacts in the exact location
where Eschweiler and his friends discovered the bodies). The six bodies were lying in a half circle approximately 100
to 150 meters in diameter and all six parachute packs were strapped to the
men’s harnesses, but none of the ripcords had been pulled. Nearby, the
children found one open parachute, but no body to account for it.
Eschweiler quickly grabbed the chute and used it to carry water from a
stream approximately 100 feet away, to douse a small fire that continued
to burn on one of the crewmember’s lifeless bodies.
According to Eschweiler, five of the men’s faces were unidentifiable, as their bodies absorbed an incredible impact from the free fall. All five had landed face down and were embedded in the ground over one meter deep. It was apparently obvious that the men had been thrown from the aircraft and were probably knocked unconscious from the internal explosion or from the G forces associated with the downward spiraling of the crash after ten feet of the B-17’s tail section separated from the fuselage.
The experience was traumatic for the 11 year old. Sixty years later, without having to jog his memory about the crash, Eschweiler vividly remembered the blue eyes of a man with "Lilienthal" stenciled on his jacket (Sgt. William Lilienthal – Waist Gunner), lying face up and staring him in the eyes. In 1996, German crash researchers knew they had identified the crash site correctly when Dr. Eschweiler volunteered this information long before they shared crash data with him. According to Eschweiler, the name Lilienthal, associated with the harsh visual he experienced first hand that day, was burned into his memory for eternity. It turns out that Lilienthal was the only man of the six with identifiable features.
After discovering the six bodies in the farm field, Eschweiler and his friends rushed over to the remainder of the crash site. By this time, the German Army had secured the site from on-lookers, and the children were told not to go near the wreckage because two more men were inside the crumpled fuselage. They were told that the men were in serious condition and unconscious, but that they were still alive. One of the men was Ralph Anderson. Eventually, the Germans drove an ambulance into the field to remove Anderson from the wreckage. They rushed him to a nearby hospital in Euskirchen, where he died shortly thereafter, either during the drive, or in the hospital
(pictured Below December 2, 1943 and May 20, 2000: The B-17 crashed in a farm field, along the road leading from Frauenberg to Dircheven, Germany. The town of Elsig is identifiable by its church steeple in the background of both pictures. The top picture was taken a day following the crash by two local German boys. The teenager posing on the tail section served in a local German Artillery unit. The bottom picture includes Cleary, and German researchers Manfred Klein and Axel Paul, at the same location).


Interestingly, German after action reports of Anderson’s
personal belongings identify the harsh reality felt by the men who made up
heavy bomber crews in the early stages of the war. The 92nd was
losing B-17’s at an alarming rate and the men were obviously nervous. The
preparedness, caused by their nervousness, showed in the items that
Anderson carried with him on the mission. Word must have spread quickly
throughout the base at Podington, that money was a huge asset if your
aircraft was shot down over German occupied Europe, especially if you were
trying to evade capture. On December 1, along with a compass, a gold ring
and a few family pictures, Anderson was carrying $2,000 French Francs. He
either didn’t trust his roommates or he felt the money might come in handy
if they were unlucky on their second mission. Unfortunately, they were
unlucky, but to make matters worse, based on his Army salary, he must have
meticulously saved this money for a long period of time and passed on many
recreational spending opportunities with his friends, to save such a large
amount.
Following the crash, Missing
(Pictured left: L to R: Otto Hemmer, Victor Cleary, Wolfgang Meier, Dr. Christian Eschweiler-crash eyewitness, and Manfred Klein at the Euskirchen cemetery where Ralph Anderson was buried, December 6, 1943).
Sadly, oblivious to the crash and the death of nine of the crewmembers, a jovial Muriel Hale sat down at her typewriter to provide Mrs. Anderson some comfort after receiving letters from Lt. Hale and Sgt. Egar’s mother: {December 6, 1943}
Dear Mrs. Anderson,
I’ve just heard today from Mrs. Ellis
Bill Egar’s mother, and after a three week lapse in correspondence with her son, she received seven letters on December 2nd.
Bill, as well as Lt. Hale, both write that all the fellows are fine, and are having fun in England. In fact, Bill wrote me that he recently spent 48 hours in London with the rest of the boys (your son included), on a pass.
…Of course, even though Lt. Hale writes me daily, he still can’t write me what they’ve been doing. Although reading between the lines, I gather they have been doing some flying, although not very much. In fact, they have just been taking it easy, and seeing the sights.
That is all I know at the present time, but sincerely hope it is enough to reassure you that your son is well…
Regards to your family, Muriel Hale
Before Christmas, the Anderson’s were notified that Ralph was missing in action. Mrs. Anderson shared her news with Muriel Hale, by mail, who quickly responded with the following letter: {January 9, 1944}
Dear Mrs. Anderson,
I certainly wish you wouldn’t feel as though all hope is gone, now that your son and my husband are missing in action, {because} it definitely isn’t. In fact, {it’s} far from it.
…I have received two letters, one from Bill Egar and the other from Al Skare, who write that chutes were seen leaving the plane over Germany, they do not know whose or how many, but, definitely feel that the boys are all OK. Naturally {they are} in prison camps. But don’t forget that before the Red Cross finds out… where the boys are located {in Germany, its representatives notify} the U.S. Government, who in turn will notify us. It will take months… of plain waiting and faith to see us through.
…Lt. Skare and Bill Egar have promised to keep on writing me and letting me know anything/everything they can find out regarding George and the rest.
…Regards to you all, Muriel Hale
Letter exchanges continued between Muriel Hale and the rest of the mothers. By mid-January, many of the families were informed of their son’s status changing from Missing in Action, to Killed in Action, based upon German Army information shared to the Red Cross. Mrs. Hale and Mrs. Anderson continued to share letters.
Dear Mr. And Mrs. Anderson,
This might seem odd coming from a perfect stranger to you, and yet not to your son… that words fail me when I try to tell you how I feel in regards to Ralph.
Maybe if I explain a little, you will know how I feel.
George’s crew, weren’t just a group of nameless boys under a lieutenant… but a close body of fellows. {Aside from their ranks, they were officers} and personnel alike. In other words, there was never any distinction ever. It was always "US."
Long before I ever met any of the boys, I knew their likes, dislikes, etc. from George. {When} I met them, it was not like meeting strangers, but friends I had known for a long time.
I was really proud that they seemed to like me, as I more than liked them.
Maybe this will let you know, when I say I’m so deeply deeply sorry that it’s not just a group of words on a sheet, but instead, something that comes from the bottom of my heart.
I am still just waiting, waiting, waiting and have "Thank God" received no word since the letter written by the government on the 27th of January. But then, I know DEEP in my heart that George must be alive… he just HAS to be.
I only knew of four boys with George, as the rest were substitutes. …Of the four, Louis Madison’s mother was notified of his death, January 3, 1944. On February 15, Mrs. Hughes was notified that her son (Paul Hughes) was killed the 1st of December. From Mrs. Kelly (Lt. James Kelly – Navigator), I have heard nothing and pray that it’s a promise of GOOD news. She has {not responded} since she wrote that Jimmy was missing.
I still hear quite regularly from Bill Egar in England, and he is still flying steadily, in fact to quote one his letters:
"A few days ago, we went out on a raid and we paid Mr. Hitler and Co. a visit. You’ll have read about it in the papers. It was a big one. I paid Jerry back a little for what he did to our boys, by shooting down a German fighter, an ME-109."
Please let me hear from you, when you feel up to it, as somehow I believe that a mistake could have been made and someday they will ALL be back with us.
Sincerely, Muriel Hale
Muriel Hale’s personal letters to Gail Anderson confirm 92nd Bomb Group reports, which identify that Lt. Hale’s four original surviving crewmembers continued to fight diligently. Gunners Forrest Neigler and Kenneth Davidson were assigned to different crews and flew multiple missions. However, both Neigler and Davidson finished their fighting careers with crash landings in neutral countries. On a mission to Berlin on March 9, 1944, Davidson’s B-17, piloted by Lt. Dick W. Floyd, received substantial flak damage to its number three engine causing the plane to quickly lose altitude. After a brief escort by two P-51 fighters, the B-17 broke through the clouds and crash landed on a frozen lake in Sweden where they interned for seven months.
Nine days later over Munich, Germany, Lt. Gordon L Capps’ B-17 #42-97515 (including Waist Gunner Neigler) received multiple hits of Flak and was forced down into Switzerland. According to Navigator Lt. Ted Siirila, their B-17 was escorted by four P-38’s until they located a Swiss airstrip where they could attempt an emergency landing. The strip was not long enough and the B-17 slid through a neighboring field, ramped off raised railroad tracks, regained flight for a few seconds, and eventually crashed down to Earth in a frozen field, miraculously leaving the crew unharmed. All ten crewmembers interned in Switzerland for eleven months. A picture of the wreckage appears on page 15 of Strangers in a Strange Land, Escape to Neutrality, Vol II.
Sgt. Bill Egar was assigned to other crews and went on to complete 37 missions with the 325th. He was credited with shooting down one ME-109 from his radio operator gun position.
Finally, original Co-Pilot, Lt. Alvin "Buster" Skare was eventually promoted to Captain and flew his last mission (presumably his 35th mission) on April 16, 1945. Numerous records indicate that Skare commanded the 325th through a few missions. In a letter written by his daughter, Sally Harman, she wrote that on December 1, 1943 Buster "was grounded as a result of illness… a severe respiratory infection and cough…. He never ‘got over’ the fact that he survived because of this and his crew perished – it was a lifetime sorrow for him."
With the help of many caring and research savvy individuals, spanning two continents, it was possible to gather accurate and informative information about the crash of B-17 42-30803. Pictured to the left is the first and only meeting between original Radio Operator, Bill Egar
(seated left), Victor Cleary (standing), and the sole survivor of the mission, Don Wilson. The picture was taken September 28, 1997 at Bally’s Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. Wilson passed away in June of 1998.

end
Egar, William J. Telephone Interview. August 1997.
Egar, William J. Personal Interview. September 28, 1997. Las Vegas, Nevada.
Eschweiler, Christian Dr. Personal interview. May 20, 2000. Euskirchen, Germany.
Eschweiler, Christian Dr. Written interview. February 3, 1997. Euskirchen, Germany.
Hemmer, Otto. German Researcher. Personal Interview. May 20, 2000. Euskirchen, Germany.
Klein, Manfred. German researcher. Personal Interview. May 20, 2000. Euskirchen, Germany.
Meier, Wolfgang. German researcher. Personal Interview. May 20, 2000. Euskirchen, Germany.
Paul, Axel. German Researcher. Personal Interview. May 20, 2000. Euskirchen, Germany.
Turner. History of the 92nd Bomb Group. Turner Publishing: Paducah KY.
United States Army Air Corps. Missing Air Crew Report. December 1, 1943.
Wilson, Donald L. Personal Interview. September 8, 1997. Las Vegas, Nevada.
Wilson, Donald L. Personal Interview. September 28, 1997. Las Vegas, Nevada.